so this is the basic logical flaw in christianity i believe.
a brother identified it from the stage for me in a talk.
we all agree (as christians and jw's) that the ransom was necessary because adam lost his perfection and everlasting life.. this is a paraphrase from the talk:.
cofty
Aren't you the one telling me in a previous thread, how you never felt completely free as a Christian, and you felt you were being controlled (though not to the same degree as when you were a JW)?
That is a symptom of not understanding "justification".
so this is the basic logical flaw in christianity i believe.
a brother identified it from the stage for me in a talk.
we all agree (as christians and jw's) that the ransom was necessary because adam lost his perfection and everlasting life.. this is a paraphrase from the talk:.
cofty
If you said "my release from prison was only possible because somebody paid my fine", does that make it any clearer?
That makes it clear you believed that there was something other that just paying a fine left to do before you could be released.
so this is the basic logical flaw in christianity i believe.
a brother identified it from the stage for me in a talk.
we all agree (as christians and jw's) that the ransom was necessary because adam lost his perfection and everlasting life.. this is a paraphrase from the talk:.
My point is that there is a giant difference between the WT ransom and the atonement of Christ in Christianity.
so this is the basic logical flaw in christianity i believe.
a brother identified it from the stage for me in a talk.
we all agree (as christians and jw's) that the ransom was necessary because adam lost his perfection and everlasting life.. this is a paraphrase from the talk:.
Anony mous
We all agree (as Christians and JW's) that the ransom was necessary because Adam lost his perfection and everlasting life.
Well no, we don't all agree. Adam lost his innocence in the fall, he was never righteous. I'm not sure what you mean by "perfection" but Adam was far from (righteous) perfection or he could not have sinned. I believe God made Adam so that he would sin, not just that he "could" sin. Cofty I agree with godrulz your view is a strawman (probably for different reasons).
No its a simplified version of the truth. If you think I don't understand the theology in detail read the article.
I did read the article
Reading through the New Testament, it seems clear that when Bible writers refer to the good news, they have in mind the forgiveness and reconciliation that has been made possible through Jesus' sacrifice.
This statement shows a false or unbiblical view. Most reformers understood/understand that Christ's death forgave (completely) the elect, not just made forgiveness and reconciliation "possible". That work was completed on the cross.
designs
it just gets better and better.....
Yea, it reminds me of when the current idiot, when running for president, didn't know how many states there are in the country he was going to lead.
.
hell is pretty much out of vogue these days so if this rabid atheist decidedly turns his back on god and/or christ what will become of me?.
nic
The penalty is for sin. Jesus has payed mine. You may want him to pay your penalty, or you can try to pay it yourself.
it seems to me that most, if not all christians are really hung up on sin and redemption from sin and how naturally evil we all are.. my question, and observation is this : i had nothing to do with whatever you say adam and eve did wrong, i have always, throughout my life, treated whoever i came into contact with compassion, respect and love.. i have lived by the golden rule.. not many people, hand on heart, can say that, i can.. so, is your god going to judge me for the "sin" of some mythical forebears of mine ?
is he going to say that , because i did not believe in him, i willl be judged adversely, even though i lived by the precepts he is supposed to support ?.
all i can say is, if your god is like that, i refuse to worship or acknowledge him.. and i certainly do not want to get to know him.
How about your flawed view of a God that needs to check in with you, to have his rights read to him?
We are not doing ex-JWs a favor to get them into Calvinism vs biblical Christianity.
Oh I see, If we don't get this right there blood will be on your hands, is that it? You don't trust God at all, do you?
Now it appears you believe a person's (ex-JWs) destiny is not just in their choice, but your ability to preach. When does God get the glory?
it seems to me that most, if not all christians are really hung up on sin and redemption from sin and how naturally evil we all are.. my question, and observation is this : i had nothing to do with whatever you say adam and eve did wrong, i have always, throughout my life, treated whoever i came into contact with compassion, respect and love.. i have lived by the golden rule.. not many people, hand on heart, can say that, i can.. so, is your god going to judge me for the "sin" of some mythical forebears of mine ?
is he going to say that , because i did not believe in him, i willl be judged adversely, even though i lived by the precepts he is supposed to support ?.
all i can say is, if your god is like that, i refuse to worship or acknowledge him.. and i certainly do not want to get to know him.
Finney was not a Pelagian (who was extreme, but also misunderstood/misrepresented by Calvinists).
I read what these men say about God, not what others say about them. I take Pelagious at his own word. Just like I take you at yours, like when you tried to tell me what God's rights are.
Your potter has no freedom.
You accuse God of injustice because you don't like or trust His judgement.
it seems to me that most, if not all christians are really hung up on sin and redemption from sin and how naturally evil we all are.. my question, and observation is this : i had nothing to do with whatever you say adam and eve did wrong, i have always, throughout my life, treated whoever i came into contact with compassion, respect and love.. i have lived by the golden rule.. not many people, hand on heart, can say that, i can.. so, is your god going to judge me for the "sin" of some mythical forebears of mine ?
is he going to say that , because i did not believe in him, i willl be judged adversely, even though i lived by the precepts he is supposed to support ?.
all i can say is, if your god is like that, i refuse to worship or acknowledge him.. and i certainly do not want to get to know him.
godrulz
Were you ever a JW?
As I said a few posts back NO.
Do you like Piper, Sproul, Packer, Lloyd-Jones, F.F. Bruce, Edwards, etc.? I do....
I have a hard time believing that, when you aline yourself more to Charles Finney than to Christ. You rail against Calvin and Augustine but give no thought to the danger of Pelagianism.
it seems to me that most, if not all christians are really hung up on sin and redemption from sin and how naturally evil we all are.. my question, and observation is this : i had nothing to do with whatever you say adam and eve did wrong, i have always, throughout my life, treated whoever i came into contact with compassion, respect and love.. i have lived by the golden rule.. not many people, hand on heart, can say that, i can.. so, is your god going to judge me for the "sin" of some mythical forebears of mine ?
is he going to say that , because i did not believe in him, i willl be judged adversely, even though i lived by the precepts he is supposed to support ?.
all i can say is, if your god is like that, i refuse to worship or acknowledge him.. and i certainly do not want to get to know him.
Just to put your mind at ease, I believe that Jesus is I AM
